... mostly about cycling, maybe mostly randonneuring, mostly near Raleigh, NC.
Sunday, April 26, 2009
Apr-26: Recovery 100k
PUE: Stem-EatonRd-GrayRockRd-OlivetChRd-GM-NL-G-P-MVC; 63.0 m.; est 3243 ft climbed ---> effort index = 95; 4hrs, 3min; 15.5 mph avg pace.
1st Qt. tot: 20 rides; 755.3 m.; 47 hrs, 31 min; 15.9 mph.
Apr tot: 13 rides; 666.4 m.; 42 hrs, 58 min; 15.5 mph.
YTD: 33 rides; 1421.7 m.; 90 hrs, 29 min; 15.7 mph.
I must have "dillied" a bit as compared to yesterday because I didn't start riding until 7:03. And later I "dallied" instead of leaving Grissom promptly, so I didn't finish until 11:26. 23 "down-time" minutes today instead of only the 14 from yesterday.
I started out signing songs aloud to myself and trying to ignore the upslopes on New Light and Dove roads. I recall not one bit of New Light at the start, so I must have succeeded there. I do recall some "ups" on Dove Rd, but can't recall if actually tried to pedal or if I just let the bike do the pedaling. I had to stop in Creedmoor at the stop light at NC-56 / US-15; I looked at my watch and saw that it was already 8:04; I then noticed my odometer on the Cateye showed 15.4 miles. So I had ridden the first hour at 15 mph, expending no noticeable energy and still unable to recall any more than just the first two lines of the song "Seventy-Six Trombones" from "The Music Man."
I did decide to try to make an effort on Brogden Rd for the climb(s) up to Stem. Must have worked, because when I stopped in Stem to eat a banana, I saw that in 5 miles I had moved the avg mph for the entire ride from 14.9 to 15.1. It is usually the case that I lose half-a-mile mph between Creedmoor and Stem. Belltown Rd north of Stem was resurfaced last year and it was a pleasure riding on super smooth asphault with lots of shade (and what turned out to be a bit of a tail-breeze). Just zipping along having fun on the bike. I don't recall where I was when I stopped for a minute to properly stretch my right leg, but a look at the Cateye revealed 32+ miles in less than 2 hours of "in-motion" time. So I had covered 17+ "up-n-down" miles in less than an hour.
I'm not sure I had ever ridden Charlie Grissom / Green Hill and then Olivet Ch Rd from north to south before today. I had always figured it might make a decent climb training substitute if one cannot get to any proper mtns. From the creek-crossing just south / SE of the Tar River crossing to the Gordon Moore / Pokomoke Rd corner is about 8 miles. Only the first little bit after crossing the creek is steep, but the rest of it, with just a couple / few exceptions, is a shallow upslope all the time. Into a breeze, or better yet, a stiff wind, and that section would make for an excellent climbing training road.
Don't know what my previous "4-day" mileage record was, but I'm sure the 210 miles I've knocked out since Thursday are my new record. The only miles not strictly solo were Friday's miles with Barry and the several miles with ??? as discussed in Thursday's post. So, virtually the entire 210 has been solo. Aah. Satisfaction. Except for a slightly sore bottom. (I adjusted the saddle before today's ride to try to deal with a possible "mis-fit" issue that gives me sore butt if I ride too many days or too far in too short a time. We'll see how things develop over the next week or two.)
I don't know why this is entitled "Recovery 100k"; I certainly didn't need to recover from Saturday's ride. Maybe I was still recovering from Thursday? Maybe I just needed a title.
http://veloroutes.org/bikemaps/?route=40704
Saturday, April 25, 2009
Apr-25: It's still my solo Saturday ride
PUE: lake loop + Coley + Redwood + Northside + Strawberry + Dove + BeaverDam/RockSprings + a bit; 62.2 m.; est 2835 ft climbed --> effort index = 90; 3hrs, 58min; 15.6 mph avg pace.
1st Qt. tot: 20 rides; 755.3 m.; 47 hrs, 31 min; 15.9 mph.
Apr tot: 12 rides; 603.4 m.; 38 hrs, 55 min; 15.5 mph.
YTD: 32 rides; 1358.7 m.; 86 hrs, 26 min; 15.7 mph.
No one showed for the 7:00 am ride, so I left solo @ 7:02. To vary things a bit, I started across Norwood instead of the usual MVC "fall"; I intended to turn onto Victory Church Rd, but I had to wait so long for the light at Creedmoor Rd, that a serendipity rider appeared and I rode with him (John ?) all the way to Leesville Rd and then Hickory Grove and down and up Coley. It was nice to have someone to chat with. And that start, with the diversion onto Coley, set the plan for the ride.
I decided to do the "standard" lake loop, but with all the small extra loops I know.
- Coley + 7.3 miles.
- Redwood + 2.2 miles.
- Northside + 1.7 miles.
- Strawberry Fields Forever + 1.6 miles.
- Creedmoor-Dove + ~ 2.9 miles because I used the recently discovered shortcut which means I did not go ALL the way up into Creedmoor (I'm calling the shorcut loop "Dove".)
- Beaver Dam +5.9 miles.
Thursday, I pedalled the bike. Hard.
Today, I let the bike do the pedalling and let my feet have a free ride just making circles riding on top of the pedals. Nice way to do a "recovery" ride.
I forgot to take my pulse at the end of the ride. But I am willing to bet that it was no where near the 122 bpm that it was 5 minutes after the end of Thursday's ride.
Friday, April 24, 2009
Apr-24: "Barry training"
Thursday, April 23, 2009
Apr-23: My Dabney / Watkins Scouting Mission
Additional review indicates that the reason for the above discrepancy is likely because the above route (as shown on veloroutes) is not the correct route. The actual route ridden did NOT include Flat Rock Rd; instead, I continued on Philo White Rd to Conyers Rd to NC-56 thru Wilton and on to Grissom via Lawrence Rd. The actual route, per veloroutes is about 1.3 miles shorter than the route shown on the above veloroutes map, and also entails approximately 155 fewer feet of climbing.
I guess I should trust records made at the time of a ride, and not trust faulty memory some five months later.]
Wednesday, April 22, 2009
Iva's BeaverDamTri Report
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 2:55 pm
Thursday morning: country club pool. Water temp 60 degrees. I had to see what it would be like so slipped beneath the surface in my sleeveless farmer john wet suit. I immediately got brain freeze. Recovered from that and swam and swam never warming up. Finally, as I was about to be overcome with hypothermia, I decided I better look at my watch to see how long I had been going. Six minutes ! Oh, my my. I said. So I determined I had to go for at least 20 minutes. When I got out my arms were blue and my speech slurred. I resolved I had to find a full wet suit or make up some excuse about withdrawing.
Friday morning: I emailed a man I know about my size at Inside Out sports and sure enough, he would let me borrow his full wet suit. Now I was good to go again.
Friday afternoon: At packet pick up at Beverdam, I heard my name called by none other than Harvey H. He was tanned and fit and rested from his week in Costa Rica. He told me he had been battling the waves and was ready for the swim. As you will see, that was certainly true.
Saturday morning: cold as ice but sunny. For some reason, they gave me a low number causing me to rack my bike with high tech, shaved legs, young, and so serious competitors. They were done before I started the run. They were standing around as I came in off the bike.
Swim: Harvey and I assisted each other with our wet suits. For some reason, wet suit designers have decided the lower drag with having the zipper on the back is worth the dislocated shoulders trying to get the things off and on. I dreaded the swim and for good reason. After catching my breath and calming my heart, I actually enjoyed the outbound leg with the sun at our back. When I made the turn, the sight buoys disappeared. It was like looking through your car windshield when it's covered with ice. I had to keep raising my goggles to see the buoys. One time I dropped them and had to tread water to get them back on while my left calf cramped up. It still hurts ! I finally finished in about 44 minutes for something that would usually take me about 35. Meanwhile, Harvey had long before finished in under 30 minutes and was 15th overall in the swim split ! I guess Costa Rica did help him.
Bike: T1 (that's the term triathletes like to toss around for the 1st transition) took me forever as my numb fingers struggled to get my bike gear on. I wore a bike jersey with a pull over and head band and gloves. I felt great on the bike. But for some reason, my legs didn't.. I plodded along. I reminded myself every time I started to stomp on the pedals to gear down. I could hear Martin yelling. I think I ended up averaging close to 17 but couldn't quite get there. The return trip on 50 wasn't as bad as I had feared. The sheriff was out in force and did a good job of calming the traffic. I didn't realize how darn far it was and how hilly it is between 98 and beaverdam.
Run: survival mode. I'm a pretty good runner. But no training on int'l distance and a head cold and "hammering" on the bike had my legs cooked. Plus, I know this will shock you, Martin: I had to run into the woods on the run to take a leak. That cost me some time. I was out on the run nearly an hour.
My bench mark on the Olympic distance is 3 hours. But, it's been awhile. This took me 3:27. I was among the last. But these were a serious group. Olympic distance this early in the season with 60 degree water doesn't attract a lot of first timers.
Thanks to the guys for the long rides. That's what told me I should try the int'l distance again.
Iva
Tuesday, April 21, 2009
Apr-21: "TT" / cadence route
Monday, April 20, 2009
Apr-19: D-ntW's Scouting Mission
Bottom of Pilot Mtn to Sauartown Mtn (up & down) to Hanging Rock (up); w/ Dave-ntW; 25.5 miles, 2hrs, 14min, 11.4 mph avg pace.
1st Qt. tot: 20 rides; 755.3 m.; 47 hrs, 31 min; 15.9 mph.
Apr tot: 8 rides; 426.9 m.; 27 hrs, 41 min; 15.4 mph.
YTD: 28 rides; 1182.2m.; 75 hrs, 10 min; 15.7 mph.
We were on a scouting mission to verify the viability of a shorter route between Pilot and Sauartown that Dave had figured out on the computer. Verified viable! Reporting avg speed but not the gross elevation climbed for a mountain ride may seem ridiculous, but I know the speed metric whereas I'll have to estimate the elevation metric later.
Saturday, April 18, 2009
Apr-18: Third time a charm
Apr-18:
Third Attempt To Complete "The Bonk Route" -- Success at Last!
Wednesday, April 15, 2009
Remember: Safety first
- If you are in a group or line, and drop a bottle, do NOT stop! Continue riding; check the traffic; when safe, pull out of line; when safe, pull a U-turn and go back to look for / retrieve the bottle.
- If you are in a group or line, and someone ahead of you drops a bottle, do NOT stop! Even if the bottle hits you or your bike, do NOT stop! (Exceptions: if the bottle gets caught in your spokes, well, you will stop regardless of your intentions, and let's hope nothing more than scrapes and bruises result; if the bottle manages to knock your chain off the chainring, yell out that you have dropped a chain and COAST to a stop -- don't suddenly BRAKE.)
- If you are riding behind someone, and want to go up to ride alongside and chat, CHECK for traffic behind you first.
- If you suddenly decide to change your route and make a LEFT turn, CHECK for traffic first. Do NOT just swing into the turn!
Given that the author did one of the above, probably the most dangerous of the list, this list and subsequent pre-ride "pep" talks should be understood to be directed at the author as much as anyone.
Tuesday, April 14, 2009
Disjointed write-up for Apr-11
Upon reaching the crest of the first climb north out of Stem on Tally Ho Rd, Iva, who was behind me, exclaimed with resignation, "Look at THAT hill!"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Regarding the inquiry "did anything happen on Saturday's ride?"
No, except for the following.
Iva is trying really hard to earn a nickname related to TV commercials and an affliction that hits many males as they age. He has been warned not to let that happen again on Doc Nichols Rd because that is "Speed Time Rd" for the author. Also, as Iva has now completed 59 and 65 mile rides, he is no longer entitled to a "I haven't ever ridden long" sit-in pass.
Dave-not-the-Wave claimed he was recovering from a head / chest cold and therefore got a mostly free pass to just "sit in". However, he did manage to take all the CL "sprints" except the ONE where anyone bothered / knew to challenge him.
The Duke was his usual very strong self despite it being only his second ride of the year. Also, typically, he was unable to "lead" the line and dropped us every time he went to the front. This was especially true if a climb presented itself ahead.
Dave invited Phil. It was Phil's second visit to the "irregular" ride. Phil exhausted his free pass by coming up alongside the leader and begging for an early stop in Creedmoor so he could eat (instead of waiting for the planned stop in Stem). After having spent 28 miles "sitting in", once the guy got a little sugar in him, he was off on the climb into Stem like he had a rocket strapped to his bike. No more early stops just because he is hurting -- I guar-ran-tee.
We were averaging over 16 mph for most of the ride, but I backed-off on Ghoston, Peed, MVC and ended with 15.9 mph for the 65 miles.
skiff
p.s. Okay, okay, due to popular demand from the Human-GPS, Creme-sicle, Eb, Zeb, Ebeneezer, and Tinman, I will explain what happened on the ONE CL that DntW did not "win".
Zeb was leading going down Rock Springs Church Rd, when he realized that he was tired (likely because none of the other bums on the ride had taken any effective pulls all day -- well, darn few anyway) and pulled out of the lead leaving Dave in the lead; he rotated to the back, where he found almost no wind. Within seconds he was recovering. A few more seconds, and after discussion with the Duke in which the Duke said he was spent and likely useless in a sprint, Zeb decided that this time, by gum, Dave was at least going to have to work for the CL "honors".
A difficult trick as Zeb had to jump past three riders to get to Dave, Zeb was not completely familiar with the landmarks from that direction, Dave is the sprinter, not Zeb, and Dave has that mirror. In retrospect, the only advantage I think Zeb may have had was that RockSprings is downslope going that direction; oh, and maybe a mile in the lead might (might) have tired Dave a little. Anyway, Zeb realized we were approaching the CL, and jumped. Somehow, Dave failed to see him coming, and failed to catch his slip-stream. Zeb reports that he still knew in his heart of hearts that Dave could easily take him, but, dang it, Zeb was gonna make Dave work for it. Zeb dug DEEP, much deeper than he did vs. the Iceman the previous week on Bruce Garner. Zeb's whole stomach / abdomen was clinched tight in agony. I think Dave must have decided to let Zeb win.
That about sums up Saturday. Flo-max. No pull bums. Headwind (did I mention that?). And Dave lost the only CL in which anyone {decided / knew where} to challenge him. And I completed my second 100 k in two days (still makes me the wimp as L did 30 miles on Friday and 200 k on Saturday).
Can we please have more of the sprinter types show up regularly to contest these CLs without Zeb having to participate? Harvey? PaulS? Dave-ntW? Iceman? Can you all show up the same week and put the hurtin's on each other? The Duke ought to make a good sprinter too -- as long as he is not in his tri-bar when the sprint starts.
"Pre"-post script:
Dave, 30 minutes after I finished my ride at PUE, I dropped by your house & left a long-valved tube in the helmet hanging from your bike.
The tube, btw, although "unfurled", was never used (I think). There should be nothing wrong with it; esp. if you squeeze all the air out and roll it up tightly so that it will reasonably fit in your saddle-pack.
I saw your truck was gone, so I did not ring the bell, but called Laurie a few minutes later to tell her that I'd left the tube. She said you'd gone to respond to an accident call.
So while one of us goes to golf, and three of us go to take a nap, you do something useful.
You may have bonked a bit today because you likely didn't eat / drink enough, but "who's the man", now?
Monday, April 13, 2009
Favorite songs from Apr-12
A Poem
A is for the Ache in my legs.
I is for the Ill wind in my face.
L is for the 'elL I am in.
W is for Where has the tailwind gone.
I is for the Inconsistency of the wind; how is it always in my face?
N is for the Nap I wish I were taking.
D is for the enD of today's torture.
Apr-12: Jus' the facts
PUE: lake loop counter-clockwise + Dove-Crdmr + extra; first ~ 42 miles w/ Dave-ntW; no tailwind any direction; 51.1 m.; est 2308 ft climbed --> effort index = 84; 3hrs, 19min; 15.4 mph avg pace.
1st Qt. tot: 20 rides; 755.3 m.; 47 hrs, 31 min; 15.9 mph.
Apr tot: 6 rides; 328.6 m.; 20 hrs, 48 min; 15.8 mph.
YTD: 26 rides; 1083.9 m.; 68 hrs, 19 min; 15.9 mph.
Tired ride. We kept waiting to get a noticeable tailwind; we are still waiting.
We crossed paths with Jason on Carpenter Pond Rd; he was fixing a flat; from a serious cut on the "road-contact" part of the rear tire. He had made a boot from a Cliff Bar wrapper, but DntW was doubtful it would hold; I think Jason was less than confident it would hold. Dave said he had made boots by cutting a piece from a plastice bottle; Dave spied a bottle across the road. I provided the knife to do the cutting; Dave cut a piece, and re-did the boot; Dave is fast at changing tires. A little air from one of Jason's cartridges, and a bit of "adding it slowly" to "top off" from my pump. Jason reported that he got home in good condition.
Saturday, April 11, 2009
Apr-11: Stem-Hester-MtEnergy 100k
PUE: DocN-Stem-Hester-MtEnergy-Grissom 100k + detour onto RockSpringChRd; w/ the Duke, Dave-ntW, Iva, Phil; strong / gusty Westerly winds; 65.0 m.; est 3180 feet climbed --> effort index = 96; 4hrs, 5min; 15.9 mph avg pace.
1st Qt. tot: 20 rides; 755.3 m.; 47 hrs, 31 min; 15.9 mph.
Apr tot: 5 rides; 277.5 m.; 17 hrs, 29 min; 15.9 mph.
YTD: 25 rides; 1032.8 m.; 65 hrs, 0 min; 15.9 mph.
Nice ride. The wind dried things out nicely after the rain. However, as it got drier, and windier, and gustier, more yellow pine pollen was blown into the air, and we rode through a yellow haze the last half of the ride. Makes one appreciate the clear conditions in which we started.
April-10: Just putzing along
BJP: CP-Coley-Boyce-DocN-Baptist-Virgil-Kemp wanderings; 63.0 miles, 4hrs, 2min, 15.6 mph avg pace.
1st Qt. tot: 20 rides; 755.3 m.; 47 hrs, 31 min; 15.9 mph.
Apr tot: 4 rides; 212.5 m.; 13 hrs, 24 min; 15.9 mph.
YTD: 24 rides; 967.8 m.; 60 hrs, 55 min; 15.9 mph.
Usual plan for a successful / enjoyable 100k: slow down ~ 1mph. New alternative plan: putz along @ 15 mph for 3 hours, then "go like hell". You can't hurt yourself that much in only 18 miles. Today, the "new alternative" is what I did; it was NOT the intentional plan; the intentional plan was just to putz along until I got tired of riding and quit. But after three hours, I was feeling good and was well warmed up, so . . . 18 miles in 1 hr, 2 min. And a "spring in my step" the rest of the day.
Sunday, April 5, 2009
Apr-5: Lake Loop + Assault on Flat Rock
BJP: lake loop + Assault on Flat Rock; 71.3 miles, 4hr, 33min, 15.6 mph avg pace.
Jan tot: 2 rides, 96.0 m.; 6 hrs, 5 min, 15.8 mph.
Feb tot: 11 rides, 350.4 m.; 22 hrs, x min, 16.0 mph.
Mar tot: 7 rides, 308.9 m.; 19 hrs, 26 min, 15.9mph.
Apr tot: 3 ride, 149.5 m.; 9 hrs, 22 min, 16.0 mph.
YTD: 23 rides, 904.8 m.; 56 hrs, 52 min, 15.9 mph.
I'm tired.
Saturday, April 4, 2009
Apr-4: Snapper Scouting Mission
PUE: 6F/NL-OWT to NC50-U turn-BeaverDam-BG-Woodlief-Purnell-NL-OWT-Whitt/BeaverDam to NC50-U turn-OWT-BD-BG-W'dlf-Purnell-NL-G-P-MVC; Snapper & Heath (but only for 1 loop of scouting), the Duke, Iceman, Iva; 52.8 miles, 3hr, 17min, 16.0 mph avg pace.
Jan tot: 2 rides, 96.0 m.; 6 hrs, 5 min, 15.8 mph.
Feb tot: 11 rides, 350.4 m.; 22 hrs, x min, 16.0 mph.
Mar tot: 7 rides, 308.9 m.; 19 hrs, 26 min, 15.9mph.
Apr tot: 2 ride, 78.2 m.; 4 hrs, 48 min, 16.3 mph.
YTD: 22 rides, 833.5 m.; 52 hrs, 17 min, 15.9 mph.
Given that this was a "scouting" mission so that Snapper would be familiar with the roads of the upcoming BeaverDamTriathlon, how is it that he only did one scouting loop while most of us did two loop? Heath rode back to PUE w/ Snapper, then Heath rode two loops of PUChRd-6F/NL-G-P-MVC; we serendipitously re-connected with Heath on Peed, just after the steep. I'm think Heath may be in pretty good shape soon.
I thought about eating some lunch and then riding another 30 miles solo, but found I was quite tired. (I can think of some people who are likely to read this that will laugh AT (not WITH) me for that comment). Sigh.
Friday, April 3, 2009
Apr-3: "Spin-out-the-legs-Friday"
BJP: CP-Leesville-U turn; strong, gusty SW wind; 25.4 miles, 1hr, 30min, 16.7 mph avg pace.
Jan tot: 2 rides, 96.0 m.; 6 hrs, 5 min, 15.8 mph.
Feb tot: 11 rides, 350.4 m.; 22 hrs, x min, 16.0 mph.
Mar tot: 7 rides, 308.9 m.; 19 hrs, 26 min, 15.9mph.
Apr tot: 1 ride, 25.4 m.; 1 hr, 30 min, 16.7 mph.
YTD: 21 rides, 780.7 m.; 49 hrs, 0 min, 15.9 mph.
The what-seems-like-usual conditions for this course. The wind going out on Pleasant Union Church Rd, Carpenter Pond, and Leesville Rd made the winds from Sunday seem like a slight breeze. Was avging 14.5 mph when I turned around ---> avg'd 18.9 mph coming back to get to the overall avg reported above. Gusts from the side turned my front wheel once, and blew me sideways on the road a couple times. Not tooooo badly, though.
Tiny-body helps heavy-bodied "friend"
The "tiny-body" gets in the way going downslope, causing the heavy-body to have to work the brakes, sit-up-catch-air, to slow down to keep from running over the tiny-body getting in the way. This results in a large loss of heavy-body momentum which would have been better used to help with the beginning of the next climb. There is always, immediately, the next climb in these parts. It also results in the heavy-body expending huge amounts of mental energy to keep from running over the in-the-way-tiny-body.
During the short, flattish part between the above-described-downslope and the next upslope, the tiny-body continues to "help" by slowing the pace from the 20 mph that had finally been "settled-for" on the previous downslope (instead of the gravity-natural 25+ mph that should have been achieved), down to around 14 mph at the bottom of that next climb. The tiny-body has continued to be oblivious to the fact that they are making things much, much worse for their heavy-body "friend".
The tiny-body has slowed the pace to 14 mph because they cannot conceive that anyone would climb any differently than they do. And how do they climb? Well, since they weigh next to nothing, it is no work at all for "them" to climb - after typically having thrown away all their momentum - by STOMPING their way up the hill.
The tiny-body blithely expects that everyone else wants to climb in that same inefficient mode. So . . . they get in the way at the bottom of the climb, force the heavy-body to throw away the remainder of their carefully conserved momentum from the previous downslope, and expect the heavy-body to STOMP their way up the hill.
The tiny-body never understands why the heavy-body labors up what has now become a small mountain instead of the minor bump it would have been if the speed at the bottom would have been the propper, gravity-natural 25 mph.
I will skip the part about the tiny-body that, having STOMPED up the climbed, has worn out their quads, and cannot ride at anything faster than 13 mph for the next mile despite being on the flat of the top of the plain. I will skip the comparison to the fact that the heavy-body, if they had been allowed to spin up the climb in their normal way, would have begun to recover cadence and/or gears as the slope diminished, and would have returned to 18 to 20 mph with nearly fresh quads while the tiny-body was in lactic hell. I will skip that.
Instead, I will draw attention to the tiny-body's habit of, upon reaching the crest and the following flat, continues to "help" the heavy-body by riding along at 11 mph, "waiting" for the heavy-body to catch back up and "hook onto" their wheel. Invariably, the tiny-body fails to comprehend that as the heavy-body rider approaches with its speed increasing as the spinning action refreshes their legs, the tiny-body too should increase their speed BEFORE the heavy-body arrives so that the heavy-body attaches themself seemlessly to the tiny-body's wheel.
Oh, no. The tiny-body continues to "help" by expecting their "friend" (?) to s-l-o-w back down to 11 mph to line up on the tiny-body wheel, and then, and only then, the tiny-body begins to pedal in ernest. Once again the heavy-body has had to grab brakes, expend mental energy, waste momentum, inflict unnecessary work and pain on their legs to accomodate their tiny-body ENEMY with whom they NEVER want to ride again !!!